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Post by Chee Yung on Oct 14, 2005 15:47:33 GMT 8
Hi Bros, The posting of Brazillian fishes by Alberto made me examine our local gamefish and our recent efforts to introduce other gamefish... and even other flyfishing cultures  I fear that we may loose interest in our wonderful local fish if we try to bring in other fish and other methods. Of course there is a lot to learn from others and introduced species can be great sport but IMHO we must not forget our roots and indigenous fish. I'm also guilty of pushing for cane rods and foreign literature because in some sense they are intellectually superior but my final aim is to adapt and adjust it to local conditions and local fish. For example, the rod designed and being made by Jeff is for fishing tengas and kelah, marcello's rod is for mangrove tarpon/barra, mike's rod is for lake fishing etc... I hope it works ;D We should sometimes introduce fast disappearing fish like haruan ( I really miss this fun fish  ), baung, tapah, temoleh, green arowana, lampam jawa etc. into the waters instead of merely releasing PBs and african imports. What do you think? Cheers CY |
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Post by pirate! on Oct 14, 2005 17:54:39 GMT 8
the idea sounds very good to me but... where is the money going to come from?
from what i know and have seen, lampan cost around $1 or $2 for a small one for a 2 or 3 incher.
green aros go for around $90 for a 3 t0 4 incher however, if u go for an untagged fish, it goes for around $50 or 70 i think (they come from "illegal" farms)
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Post by Chee Yung on Oct 14, 2005 18:56:12 GMT 8
the idea sounds very good to me but... where is the money going to come from? from what i know and have seen, lampan cost around $1 or $2 for a small one for a 2 or 3 incher. green aros go for around $90 for a 3 t0 4 incher however, if u go for an untagged fish, it goes for around $50 or 70 i think (they come from "illegal" farms) Thanks for responding AnRen... and quite correct too except that I think that lampam is cheaper when bought from farming suppliers not aquarium breeders... we also cant have many arowannas as they are territorial... the rest of the fish are local and may be cheaper than Temensis... not too sure  Well the money comes from people who feel that what I say is important and want things done.... but it is just my opinion... ... from the response so far I may not have hit a chord  ;D Anyway thanks again for the feedback   Cheers CY |
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Post by xxJiMboZxx on Oct 14, 2005 21:54:37 GMT 8
CY, I think we add peacock bass is jus a supplement to our sportfishing. So dun worry, I think in the new future we will add our local sebaraus and etc.. You can either check with Qwek or Yu Hock. |
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Post by alberto on Oct 15, 2005 0:03:44 GMT 8
HI CY, I started fishing since I was 10.  Back then, there was lot of fresh water ponds with Grassie, Song, Carp, Soon Hock and the ever pesky Talipia. Later, I started seeing occasionally, sultan and rohu in some ponds and then the toman craze in the 80s. I call these species, fishes of my roots. I grew up catching these and I would gladly continue to target these fishes on fly if there is a place with these fishes. Sadly, all these ponds are gone and HDB estates now tower over these sites. So as with the Dancers adoption, I willing to go through the same procedures to see them back in our homeland. regards Alberto |
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Post by Chee Yung on Oct 15, 2005 10:24:31 GMT 8
JimboZ & Alberto, Glad to know you guys feel the same sentiments about local species ... Some species like terubol can be really POWERFUL fighters... of course there's the one inch a year Soon Hock that feels like deadwood but tastes heavenly ;D... Oops CnR encouraged! hahahaha Toman for me is not common species as I used to target haruan. The other species is belida... Wham! but feels like plasticbag afterwards ... the big three spotted ones are a little more lively. Those who haven't hooked onto a 3kg plus lampam Jawa will be shocked by their power .. ditto for train-like grass carps that should only be targetted with graphite rods as cane will take a set if not careful .... last but not least the pond Jelawat that is more sluggish but still rather formidable  Of course there are the mountain stream species that rival any brooktrout ( I think), there were prawns and freshwater crabs (even in Bukit Timah streams previously) .... I remember the Kenderap ( a shark like gravel hugging fish) that I collected for my aquariumand various nice forage fish barbs that should be immitated in our local fly design.... Sigh.... patience and time.... Cheers CY |
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Post by Qwek on Oct 15, 2005 10:34:18 GMT 8
Hi CY,
Starting another dancing class? Looking at the local suppliers, I think getting good stocks and at a reasonable price are not a problem. But the problem is where to hold the class. The last location is very well thought of, very well protected and you might get shot at... oops!
We are currently doing small scale transfers of PBs to other locations, very few I must say.
May i suggest we hold on to the next class until the formation of the Club. We can even use the next picnic for contribution for the next batch of dancers. That way we have a reserve till we decide on the dance repertoire.
What you did for the boo are a great helps to us, we have not much exposure to such first hand info on the cane and literatures. Great works!
Meanwhile, I trying to find out where my plastics are hidden.
Shall We Dance?
Cheers
Qwek
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Post by Chee Yung on Oct 15, 2005 10:58:08 GMT 8
Qwek, Thanks for finding out about the supply of local fish... I cant organise proms even if offered a peanut and have no intention to jump the gun.... I'm just concerned that the introduction of PBs everywhere will wipe out /prevent introduction of our local species... Y'know, the brook & cutthroat trout are beginning to revolutionise fishing in the States as the colonial brown trout is recognised as a introduced species. Similarly, grayling is getting more popular as it is a sensitive local species.... We've already got a fake island called Sentosa and I feel that it is good if we could think of water set aside for local species. ...Again, it is just my opinion and there is no hurry as long as we can get the seed fish in the future and the waters are not totally colonised by foreign species... Oops BTW grass carp is foreign but known not to breed locally... I fully support, respect and cant begin to express gratitude for the hard work put in for the Temensis Dancers. Again, it is just sentimentality acting up again ;D and I do envy you guys rolling in local species at Kenyir ;D Oh yeah.... would love to hear more about your fibreglass and ultralights... they are actually more part of my personal fishing history than cane rods Cheers CY |
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Post by xxJiMboZxx on Oct 15, 2005 13:36:17 GMT 8
CY, introducing PB will not wipe out our local species, as I have seen them kept together wif other species and they get along fine. When hunting for food I think they are not as ferocious as the toman. The main culprits for wiping out our fishes are tar pau fisherman and netters. ;D
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Post by pirate! on Oct 15, 2005 16:50:15 GMT 8
the idea sounds very good to me but... where is the money going to come from? from what i know and have seen, lampan cost around $1 or $2 for a small one for a 2 or 3 incher. green aros go for around $90 for a 3 t0 4 incher however, if u go for an untagged fish, it goes for around $50 or 70 i think (they come from "illegal" farms) Thanks for responding AnRen... and quite correct too except that I think that lampam is cheaper when bought from farming suppliers not aquarium breeders... we also cant have many arowannas as they are territorial... the rest of the fish are local and may be cheaper than Temensis... not too sure Well the money comes from people who feel that what I say is important and want things done.... but it is just my opinion... ... from the response so far I may not have hit a chord ;D Anyway thanks again for the feedback Cheers CY Arowanas can be quite peaceful fish. much depends on the temprement of the fish. Silver arowanas generally have the best temprement followed by the greens the Grade 2 reds. as all fish go, purchasing in bulk is much cheaper. I would think we can order grassies and patins etc from food fish suppliers. that way they will be a substantial size so we don't have to grow them up in our own tanks. |
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Post by Admin on Oct 20, 2005 11:11:45 GMT 8
Are we not enjoying other 'alien invasion' (read as toman, song, chow her) before PB introduction?
Are the disappearing of Tiger Barb, Toman, Tilapia in Kranji Reservoir due to PB?
See the point? All I can say is help to build a healthy ecosystem and its inhabitants will thrive.
Couldn't have agree with you more YH.
Could somebody define on what historical data
do we define that particular species as native.
What is the cut-off date for the species to be here before it is classified as native species?
How do you classify as a native species when the new reservoir
is completed at the Marina Barrage?
Is it because the fish is there first then it is a native species?
And the rest which followed are all introduced species?
If this is the argument, then I am going to put a few peacock basses there
just when the barrage is completed. (Way before the water turn fresh)
Take a few photographs for the record.
(Doesn't matter they will die in the salt water.)
But their classification as native to marina is more important.
Right?
Then I make a big huha and call the press and show them the photographs
and claimed myself as the one discovering the peacock bass in the Marina Barrage.
Have the peacock name after me too.
Teomensis ...... whatever. ;D ;D
Common people.
Lets have a open mind.
Don't just follow what the books are writing.
Most of what is said doesn't apply to Singapore.
We have to use our own yardstick to measure Singapore.
Can a dry fly purist say we are not fly fishing because we are not using dry flies to fish?
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Post by xxJiMboZxx on Oct 20, 2005 14:21:05 GMT 8
I think I heard it from somewhere , that peacock bass has only 5 yrs of lifespan..........will tat solve some of the problem? and I haven't see a pb in Kranji either. Like said before most of the local fishes are depleting because of tar pao and bait fishermen! |
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Post by Admin on Oct 20, 2005 15:59:51 GMT 8
Did the native species disappeared when the PUB built the reservoirs, or when the peacock basses were introduced?
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Post by Chee Yung on Oct 20, 2005 16:13:53 GMT 8
Are we not enjoying other 'alien invasion' (read as toman, song, chow her) before PB introduction? Are the disappearing of Tiger Barb, Toman, Tilapia in Kranji Reservoir due to PB? See the point? All I can say is help to build a healthy ecosystem and its inhabitants will thrive.Could somebody define on what historical data do we define that particular species as native. What is the cut-off date for the species to be here before it is classified as native species? How do you classify as a native species when the new reservoir is completed at the Marina Barrage? Is it because the fish is there first then it is a native species? And the rest which followed are all introduced species? If this is the argument, then I am going to put a few peacock basses there just when the barrage is completed. (Way before the water turn fresh) Take a few photographs for the record. (Doesn't matter they will die in the salt water.) But their classification as native to marina is more important. Right? Then I make a big huha and call the press and show them the photographs and claimed myself as the one discovering the peacock bass in the Marina Barrage. Have the peacock name after me too. Teomensis ...... whatever. ;D ;D Common people. Lets have a open mind. Don't just follow what the books are writing. Most of what is said doesn't apply to Singapore. We have to use our own yardstick to measure Singapore. Can a dry fly purist say we are not fly fishing because we are not using dry flies to fish? Billy Teomensis! I think you are in your rebel fighting cock mood today ;D ;D... imagine salting that poor PB just to have your name on it...Tsk Tsk ;D ;D ;D Again, I do not intend to criticize people introducing fish... already our reservoirs feel like fishing in an aquarium with the many colourful fish available. What I mentioned is merely catching fish that can be found in the wild rivers and lakes... if you miss them and think they should be preserved, why not give them a second chance? Historical fact about ingenous species? Maybe the coelacanth is the original fish? Maybe I'm a banana... influenced by foreign books and ideas ... but I have never met the kind of generosity here locally like I found with the bamboo rod flyfishers... I thought that there could be something to learn from them. If you guys think we are good enough and no need to be better, so be it ... BTW, I felt this way after reading a LOCAL magazine stating how striped chiclids have overun a nice jelawat/haruan filled lake .... do I need further proof? Local species are linked to local fauna, flora and a whole web of life... we just do not see it... in that sense, YH is right... but to think that our ecosystem is built to take in all species, IMHO, I think is a dangerous assumption. Cheers CY |
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Post by Admin on Oct 20, 2005 19:03:55 GMT 8
Billy Teomensis! I think you are in your rebel fighting cock mood today ;D ;D ;D Sorry CY. You're right. I was in foul mood after spending the whole of yesterday and this morning uploading the pictures for my blog. So I went to LP to relax and saw Mr Lee. I think I must look awlful, because he called me "Uncle". Imagine Mr. Lee calling me uncle. (nabeh) Caught a PB, which fought like a tiger. So I think I feel better now. I thought of putting some humour to a serious subject. But after reading the post again today, I am sure I was not myself. My apologies. Serious stuff. Anyway, all the bodies of water in Singapore are artificially created. That alone could have resulted in some species becoming extinct because of the change in water conditions alone. Some fish may survive, but they may not breed. Some may breed, but their offsprings may not survive the change in water conditions. Some offsprings may survive, but the water conditions may have injured them permanently resulting in infertile fishes. There are so many reasons that the fishes could become extinct. Sometimes foreign books should be read by us locals with caution. Simply because the authors are far away and had not really known the conditions and changes over here. Some of them probably write those research books without even coming to Singapore, but based their findings on a general research done in South-East Asia. Why did I say that? Because, many of them had said that the lampans became extinct in Singapore. I read in quite a number of those reports and they agreed with each other that the lampans were extinct. These so called researchers scratch each others back. You back my findings, I'll back yours. But over here in this forum, you can all see that the lampans are well and breeding and swimming in swarms at MacRitchie Reservoir. It is a matter of knowing where to look. Many local guys also said the tiger barb was wiped out and had became extinct in the wild in Singapore. No they have not. Go to Seletar Club Road. There is a body of water which is enclosed. One side is the road and the other side is Seletar Golf Club. In the "canal like" pond where all the water lilies grow, you can find wild tiger barbs in abundance. Go have a look. What about plants, grass and other vegetation? The grass growing in a lot of places in Singapore are also imported. A lot of trees are also imported and not native. There are certain conditions that saw to it that planting some trees are not viable. Should the naturalist go and chop these trees down? Peacock Basses are not the only species imported from the Amazon. Rubber trees too.
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), baung, tapah, temoleh, green arowana, lampam jawa etc. into the waters instead of merely releasing PBs and african imports.
;D
Fishing sucks? Try Flyfishing! ;D
