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Post by Admin on May 5, 2005 12:43:13 GMT 8
Recently, the subject of introduced species in Singapore again crops up.
Anyone can define what is "an introduced species"?
When the Reservoir in the City is completed, there won't be any local native species in there because that place was salt water before. Over time, when the waters from LPR overflow into this reservoir, I am sure, peacock basses, tomans, aruans, earth eaters, tilapias and other species will make their way to this new reservoir. Does all these species have a place in the new reservoir? If not, why?
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Post by snakeriver on May 5, 2005 14:46:46 GMT 8
Hi Billy, This issue is always a sensitive issue esp. during the days at the FK. I remember "Beng" who was very active at that time debating over this issue. For me, I am not "old" enough to know the oiriginal waters and the species that were/are in our waters at that time. But base on by limited knowledge, fishes like tomans, PB(definitely), Pacu Pacu are introduced. Maybe someone can share some light what others species are introduced.
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Post by Qwek on May 5, 2005 15:36:08 GMT 8
Hi folks,
It'll depend on how one look at "Foreign Talents", nowadays we are being entertained by South Americans. Very few reports of Chinese snakeheads around.
It fact I thinking of flirting with Norteamericano, the blue collars type. ;D ;D ;D Anyone need introduction to these fellows, join the club.
Sorry Billy, got carried away. I think in a few years after it is dam up, it will become another Pandan. Probably the same stocks too.
Cheers Qwek
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Post by snakeriver on May 5, 2005 16:36:21 GMT 8
Hi Qwek,
;D blue collar.. I like Latin better. Much suitable for our temperature.Hm.. how about some sambal with royal ravon and cha cha with dorado??? ;D ;D all are nice to tango with. Throw in some tarpon, GH and Milkies, that will be a wonderful "dancefloor" for everyone ;D
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Post by Admin on May 5, 2005 17:34:10 GMT 8
Hi Billy, This issue is always a sensitive issue esp. during the days at the FK. I remember "Beng" who was very active at that time debating over this issue. For me, I am not "old" enough to know the oiriginal waters and the species that were/are in our waters at that time. But base on by limited knowledge, fishes like tomans, PB(definitely), Pacu Pacu are introduced. Maybe someone can share some light what others species are introduced. Yes, it was indeed a very sensitive issue. The issue being always by the "naturalists" trying to preserve the local species in a body of water, which I also think is a fine thing for them to do. I definitely support them on this matter. I also agree that introduced species compete and sometimes wipe out the local species. Now that we have a new fresh water body of water, who are we to judge what specis is a local or which is the introduced species. All the species will somehow or other be introduced into this new reservoir. When the land locked saltwater species like the tarpons and other salties fail to reproduce and dies out due to the changing salinity of the water. Of course it would be an anglers' dream if some of the sea bass can remain in the reservoir and grow to gigantic sizes. But over time, I can see the usual species like the toman, peacock bass, tilapia, louhan etc populating the new reservoir. Can we than say that the Peacock Basses and Tomans ARE the naturals in this new body of water. Quite a few of the reservoirs in Singapore are man made. Some are created just a little over ten years ago. Which species, then are the locals?
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Post by Admin on May 5, 2005 18:22:35 GMT 8
Hi folks, It'll depend on how one look at "Foreign Talents", nowadays we are being entertained by South Americans. Very few reports of Chinese snakeheads around. It fact I thinking of flirting with Norteamericano, the blue collars type. ;D ;D ;D Anyone need introduction to these fellows, join the club. Sorry Billy, got carried away. I think in a few years after it is dam up, it will become another Pandan. Probably the same stocks too. Cheers Qwek Yes Qwek. I read some stories about Blue Gills too. If only...................... ya if only. But Peacock Basses are fine with me too. I think I should help them stake a claim like the old wild wild west and they will be the local species in this new reservoir. Together with the tomans and the tilapias.
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Post by snakeriver on May 5, 2005 18:41:11 GMT 8
Hi Billy,
Good view. Well if this is a brand new man made reservoir, then there is no issue with the naturalists. The land lock barra, tarpon, GH, Milkies will survive and others like archerfish, tilipia etc. It will goes quite a long way before PB can be introduce since they cannot tolerate salinity very well. Toman are still quite alright. If we need to introduce new species for the sport of flyfishing, we need to study properly ;D
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Post by Admin on May 5, 2005 18:48:43 GMT 8
Hi Billy, Good view. Well if this is a brand new man made reservoir, then there is no issue with the naturalists. Good view too snakeriver. This is what we need. No issue with the naturalists. Then we can work together with them to make the reservoir a place for them as well as a playground for us.
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Post by ShadowCaster on May 5, 2005 22:56:22 GMT 8
Interesting topic!
I'll express my personal opinion in the perspective of a flyfisherman.
I think as long as the fish species provides good sporting qualities and does not have implications to public health/safety or adverse environmental impact, why not?
I believe none of our water-ways nor our reservoirs are natural in the true sense in the first place. Even the seemingly "natural" resevoirs in the central catchment areas were created by damming the streams and its ecology (aquatic plants and fish species) artificially managed to optimise its purpose as drinking water reservoirs. Hence, their ecology had probably been irreversibly altered from its original state.
What needs to be done when a new species is introduced is perhaps to try to give them a chance to sustain themselves through each other. I admit that we may not know the answer before we do so but nature has a strange way to sort herself out if given a chance.
Allow me to quote some examples of non-indigeneous "introduced" species at some famous locations.
2 hundred years ago, there were no brown or rainbow trouts in the American West. They were brought in to states like Montana, Colorado, Wyoming and they florished. Today, flyfishermen and the local economy cannot imagine life without them. But what had trout done to the local species some may asked? But then again, is that a burning issue today? I can repeat the same story in Catskills trout streams of New York, the great rivers of New Zealand, and the pristine Patagonian rivers in South America, but you guys get the drift.
When carp proliferated into the Great Lakes around Michigan 10-20 years ago, some interest group cried foul and predicted the end of the ecology of the lakes. Today, flyfishers are having a ball stocking carps on the flats like bonefish. The last time I checked, the Walleyes and Lake Trout in Lake Michigan are doing just fine.
I would be a least bit surprise if Toman Craze hits Maryland 10 years from now.
Having said all the above, I respect the rights of naturalists advocating the restoration and preservation of our natural aquatic ecology. But doing so here in Singapore would mean that life will become unberably boring for us flyfishermen.
If one needs to choose between the 2, I'll rather be a happy flyfisher!
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Post by fishin_guy on May 6, 2005 0:02:49 GMT 8
actually we have freshwater herring, tarpons and even milk fish in our reserviors..i saw some with my own eyes..even araprima..
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Post by Admin on May 6, 2005 8:15:40 GMT 8
Thanks TY for the valuable input. Lets hope we have a new place to fly fish when the Reservoir in the City is completed.
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Post by Admin on May 6, 2005 9:24:52 GMT 8
For a moment, I thought BT was referring to us. Aren't our ancestors introduced as well? Come to think of it, our ancient ancestors all came from Africa. ;D ;D
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Post by snakeriver on May 6, 2005 11:15:20 GMT 8
Hi BT, TY, YH, I guess most of us have the desire to see our little city to become a place when fellow fly fisho can enjoy more of the sport without having the "fear" of label as a poacher. In fact, I have overseas frens who told me that almost everyone thinks that fly fishing in non existing in Singapore. There are many keen fisho who are willing to stop over for a day or 2 to fish while they are enroute from Oz to Europe and vice versa. Not forgetting the rich Japs who is only hours away to catch their dream royal pavon instead of paying $$$ and health concern to travel to South America. They can bring their wives and "throw" them at the shopping centres or casinos whiel they fish ;D YH, I am always in for the funding project for royal pavon, count me in.
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Post by AnglerAdventurer on May 6, 2005 11:57:50 GMT 8
As we all know, ENV took a decade to cleanup Singapore River and thereafter, Kallang Basin follow suit. Now, ENV is going to Dam up Marina Bay and in two to three years time we will have another man made reservoir.
It will take years if not a decade for this city reservoir to convert from saltwater to freshwater. The process, condition and the period of deterioration of the marine ecosystem is very detrimental to the environment but I am very sure ENV have studied and planned for that.
Looking from a sportfisherman perspective, when the city reservoir opens up for fishing and includes the flyfishing community than it's a bonus for us. It means more fishermen will fish there and the business of the tackle shops along Beach road would increase due to the close proximity, we have a win-win suitation here.
We definitely need to "introduce" some species into this reservoir if we want the sportfishing community to grow. Being a saltwater reservoir in the first phase, we can release fishes like: Seabass, Mangrove Jacks, Tarpons and Herrings as these species can adapt to the changes of the saltwater salinity given time. Gradually, when the water conditions permit through the years, freshwater species may be introduce.
When we talk about introducing fishes into our reservoirs, ENV/PUB will have the final say in this. Naturally, Carps and Tilapias will be the choice. Right now, all developed countries around the world are very concerned about their native fishes and will not permit any "outside intrusion" to infest in their freshwater system.
When the second phase starts, ultimately we need that "someone" to introduce those other freshwater species. A very good example, how did the Peacock bass ended up in Yishun(LSR) and Pandan? We can have Peacock bass, Snakeheads, Berlidas, Saratogas, Bluegills, "Soon Hock", Patins, Pacu........ the list goes on and on............ but the bottom line is, how can we sustain these fishes in our reservoir if fishermen are taking away their catches(Tar Pau).
The most important aspect is to educate the fishermen on the use of artificial lures/baits, the proper way to fish/release and to keep the environment clean. If every fishermen can do that, I'm very sure ENV/PUB will relax the ruling on fishing at all the reservoirs. So, lets all do our part in educating the young and old fishermen....... keep our fingers crossed.......that we will have more fishes and legal fishing grounds in the near future.(especially for the flyfishermen!)
Huns.
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Post by AnglerAdventurer on May 7, 2005 14:53:34 GMT 8
For all you know, the ISA applys to the PBs too. Anytime there's more than 5 PBs in a group is considered "illegal gathering" by PUB...........that's why the weeds were harvested. Weeds are "hide-out" haven for PBs and I notice the weeds in LP have been cleared, especailly along the shoreline(20ft out). You hardly see any PBs hanging out near the banks accept for the smaller fries. The fishes may have swam out to deeper water where the weeds are. Just take a look at Whiskey Hotel, not much weeds around but the PBs still hang around there cause the rocks and fallen branches give them cover. Say, you can count me "in" on the Royal pavon idea....... it would be great if KJ, LP, L/USR and UP have them. I did sight quite afew Toman of good sizes along the Kranji Golf course in the morning while golfing there but hardly any at the Pumphouse...... Huns.
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