Pot calling the Kettle black

[Qwek]

Hi fellow boohemains,

This is the time to borrow the flame proof suit from Billy!

I was following a debate across the causeway about branded stuff and it turns into a generalisation of Cane rods collectors and users as snob.

"Bamboo or cane rod is too high class... judging from his postings. Only snobs like master Yong uses them nowadays. What was the popular rod material in the 80's? Fibreglass? Couple with Shakespeare's Plueger reel maybe? Twirled horse hair fly line? " - Novice

The post can be viewed here; www.fishing.net.my/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9394&whichpage=1

I have fished with a lot of the kakis up from KL and most of them are very friendly and sincere. I have the opportunity to fish with Yong, a dedicated flyfisherman and cane rod craftman. Who will not hesitate to share with you fishing tips or any informations regarding flyfishing or fishing in general. Like most flyfisherman, Yong is very humble and is "colour blind" and would share a boat or spot with you no mattter what rods or gears you are holding. Yong, a true flyfisherman, is no snob in my eyes.

Unfortunately, I do not know Novice well to describe him. But you can see for yourself the contradiction in his initial reply to one mustaffaaziz8:

"Seriously, I don't see anything wrong with telling people what you intend to buy and what you are using. I for example have been telling people I am using cheap Okuma and second hand Leeda reels and there isn't anything wrong with that but I intend to get an Abel reel as soon as I can afford it. I just don't see there is anything wrong with that. Overall I think this forum is quite balanced. It is far from being a 'show off' forum. I wonder where you got that.

BTW, are you a fly fisher? From your posting you speak like you are some sort of master fly fisher. " Novice.

Here I see a kettle and a pot.

I hope that Novice would be to see the light one day that using a cane rod does not make one a purist or a snob.

There is a place for everything in flyfishing, except for snobbery whcih I hope never creeps into flyfishing and ends with him.

Cheers
Qwek

[Chee Yung]

Hi Qwek,

Name calling unfortunately happens everywhere even on Banjo's forum

Our solution is always to invite name callers ( who are not known universally as a**holes : to go fishing and decide their character from there on. Fishing shows many people's true colours IMHO.

Ours is a gentle sport of civilised but at the same time tough/enthusiastic people. Cane is, as I mentioned in my blog.. just part of a person's preference because of the meanings involved.

IMHO, any comments on 'Novice' should end here and I'm glad you brought up this issue of 'cane snobbery'. I hope everyone put off by cane will just meet us enthusiasts and we can share tackle... the only request is to respect borrowed tackle, cane/graphite or fibreglass ... Snobs dont share, we do.

Cheers
CY

[ShadowCaster]

When one begins to worry about other's opinion of one's preferences and inclination, its time to go fishing! ;D ;D The only thing that should worry us are barren waters, because everything else usually flow away with the current.....

[flybum]

Hi guys,I am new here....really curious about the fly cane rod fraternity in Singapore ...do you built your own and are this rods expensive?Do you need to change your casting technique? I have acquired a few but have not got round to using them yet.Your comments will be appreciated.Cheers.

[Chee Yung]

Welcome to where the Grass is Greener flybum ;D!

Whatdya mean you 'acquired a few'? We are like talking Mercedes cars here and you just 'acquired a few'? ;D ;D

Just Kidding and snob talking ... Now to answer your questions..

1) We have started to build and only last weekend I saw a real true blue Singapore built from scratch perfect blonde blank!! Dont ask me where I saw it but I'd say my split canes are still split

2) Yup, cane rods are expensive tho cheaper ones can be found but Singapore built ones will not be for sale until much later... and even if they are, they will be expensive cos all the $ will go for conservation of our waters.

3) Cane rods traditionally cast line while graphites shoot line though my modern canes shoot line like no tomorrow... yesterday my line kept slapping at my reel cos it wanted to go further than NZ

Keep those questions coming!

Regards

CY

[flybum]

Hi CY,

Thanks for your reply.It was certainly helpful.The canes rod were bought off an auction but I am not sure whether they are any good.I'll name two of them firstly a 6ft. 9ins. 2 piece 4wt. 'The Wallop' by Constable of Bromley and a 5wt. Hardy Palakona 'The Deluxe' 9ft. 3 piece with 2 tops with original Hardy aluminium tube.The Constable appears unused with the plastic sleeve still intact around the cork handle.Whilst the Hardy still retain at least 95% of it's original finish.However there is a slight set to the Constable.Can this be rectified? Are cane rods high maintenance?Any comments will be helpful?

Cheers.GP.Goh

[TarponCraz]

Hi GP,

If the Hardy Palakona 'The Deluxe' is in good shape (95% as you said), you are in luck. Besides varnish, check the ferruls for any hairline crack and tightness. But if the Constable was not fished, why the set in the tip?

Yes, the set could be taken out with some careful repair work. As to how difficult it is, it depend on the "degree" of the set and the glue used to bind the strips . If you can show me the rod, I may be able to fix it for you.

For cane rod, you need to use dry soft cloth to wipe all the sections dry after fishing. Take them out of the rod sock after geting home and lay them on flat surface that is not shined on directly by sunlight. After drying in such condition, then pack them in rod sock and store in the rod tube. It will help to put a bit of silica gel in the tube to keep the rod dry.

Alternate the tips if you have two tips in one rod. This will prevent one tip from over use that could lead to a set taking shape prematurely.

[Chee Yung]

Hi Goh,

Uncle Wong has answered the questions perfectly and thrown in a priceless offer to adjust the set PsssHHH he just wants to caress your canes ;D ;D

The rods are indeed collector's items and good buys. Just cast them with different setups ( reels & lines) to find the best 'feel' and you are set to fish! I imagine the Constable to be a delicate medium fast dry fly rod and the Hardy to be quite a powerhouse and may need to be balanced with a heavier reel.

Dont worry too much about our climate and cane. Just keep them dry after fishing ( I wipe them dry and hang them out in their bags for a few days) and stored vertically in tubes in a well ventilated/shaded spot. Never store them in damp, hot conditions or places with solvents. Never wipe them with silicon products as it will make revarnishing a chore. If you like, buffing them with wax every season is also good. As for use and casting, good casting technique, steady rythm and 'listening' to the rods are good practices. Fight big fish from the butt and never use the tip either for casting or for fighting fish....Actually all the same rules above applies to graphites... its just that we dont bother as much.

Hope to see you in the water soon!

Cheers
CY

[flybum]

Hi guys,

Thanks for your comments.The set on the Constable is lateral which suggest bad storage.It is only a slight set to the left if you hold the rod upright and in front of you.Can this be corrected if I reverse lie the rod? Whilst the Hardy seems to be in excellent [ straight and true]condition with light flakings to the wraps[ I finally scrutinised it last night after 6 months...lol].

As for the balance,CY.I use a Loop FW 26 with a 4wt. line for most of my trout fishing and it seems to balance quite nicely with the Constable..any recommendations for the Hardy?

What is the lenght and line class for your cane rods you guys favour in Singapore? And target species?

REgards
GP

[Chee Yung]

Hi GP,

You dont sound like you are local.. so I guess Uncle's offer is out and I also dont get to caress the canes ;D

Anyway, the set is best not be rectified by reversing the lie as you may end up a set to the right instead. The common way is to warm the rod area with the set ( with an alcohol lamp or heat gun) just before it is too hot to touch and slowly bend it the other way. Remember not to use too much heat or the varnish and blank can be damaged. Do this a few times until the set is rectified.

You seem to have started casting the Constable rod. Many instances, the set is due to poor casting technique ( suddenly loading the rod to sideways) and sometimes due to tempering ( most Constables I see are very blonde and may not have much heat tempering). Anyway, if you are a right-hander and tend to side cast right side the set may disappear as you fish the rod. That's what happened to one of my rods ( I could not straighten it well cos it was glued with Resorcinol) and its fine now

The Loop FW is a nice set up and if you feel it is balanced and comfortable, it is. The Hardy will most probably weigh around the 5 ounce plus region if not 6 and a Hardy Angel will do nicely Hmmm... the Hardy Zane seems pretty cool too since your Hardy may be a 7wt if I'm not mistaken

We normally use cane for freshwater at lenghts 7ft to 8.5ft with shorter rods ranging from 3wt to longer rods of 6wt. TY fishes salt with his wonderful salmon rods and I have a few models that can fish both salt and fresh. Do explore the many 'rod stories' for the lurid tackle details! ;D

The targets for fresh include Peacock Bass, Sebarau, various cichlids, toman, lampam etc. TY has caught Queenfish on his setup and other estuarine species like tarpon and barra is in my list. My Calviello and Beaverhead rods were designed to handle salt and medium sized trevally and bonefish

Cheers
CY

[flybum]

Hi guys,

Excuse my oversight.Firstly,thanks Uncle for your offer.I am a Malaysian now residing in Edinburgh and always had an interest in bamboo rods and classic tackles.Recently I have started to collect vintage fly fishing paraphernalia like old creels,fly boxes.salmon/trout loch flies,etc and of course cane rods.

One of the highlights of last year was when I had the opportunity to hold a HL Leonard' The Baby Catskill'...awesome , in an auction.

Upon your susggestion of heat treatment to rectify the the set,CY, I am happy to say it has worked.Are all cane rods built perfectly straight? The Hardy is a 5wt. Dry Fly and seems to be a bit heavy to match with modern fly reels....

You mention some cane rod brands.Are they expensive and sold in Singapore? And what make?

Regards

GP

[Chee Yung]

Hi GP,

Good to know your rod set is repaired. No, cane rods are never 100% straight but good makers are close to 100% . A 5wt huh... then you need a good ole heavy as hell Hardy Perfect or a Bogdan Trout to go with it ;D ;D. Just kidding, just try out a few disc drag and heavier reels to check the balance. Some people actually add lead line to weigh down modern reels but I'm not too sure about that

What you said about your interest is music to our ears! We are really crazy about cane rods and classical reels here in this section. Tan Yik ( shadowcaster) started it all many years ago when I enquired about a hexagraph and finally poisoned me into looking at cane ;D. We have since started many threads regarding cane rods and classic reels that you can read through. My threads about rods are usually called ' Rod Stories' while TY has the more original ' here is a piece of history'/ ' this maker does it again' approach together with his amazing catch pics ;D.

My rod stories started with a piece on my 2nd cane rod, a restored 1915 Leonard Catskill ( I can imagine the thrill of casting a Baby Catskill !) followed by:
1)Granger Favourite 7633 replica ( if you like John Gierach, this is the rod)
2)Brooks MacKenzie by Mike Brooks of Oregon USA who worked with Leonard as a fly tyer
3) Quad/rectangular hollowbuilt rod from European maker Danny Heus ( based on Mike Montagne taper)
4) Hollowbuilt bamboo ferrule rod from Marcello Calviello of Argentina
5) 13 strip triangular rod from Kurt Zumbrun from Switzerland
6) Butt to tip hollowbuilt with graphite ferrule rod from Wayne Maca, one of the BooBoys in Glenn Brackett's Winston rod shop.. now Sweetgrass Rods
7) Bamboo ferrule rod from Danish master Bjarne Fries etc.

You can see that I love contemporary cane masters and especially the cutting edge ones .

TY mentioned his wonderful rods from AJ Thramer, Gary Lacey ( Granger), Orvis, his reels and his wonderful restoration work

There are other cane rod/classical reel users here, Uncle, Billy, Qwek, Alberto, IMX but they are too humble to post much ;D

And yes, most of the cane rods mentioned are expensive rods but we do not talk much about price here as they are all for fishing . We like to talk about their aesthetics, history, feel, their rodmakers and other fun aspects. We also discuss books, flyfishing literature, other makers from Japan, UK etc.

It is good that you are in UK and can give the UK perspective as most of my experience is with US & European makers. Never got down to buying a UK Palakona or Tom Moran but I'll get there one of these days ;D ;D

Of course we are also trying to build our own cane rods, restore rods and make bantys here... the obsession never ends!

We have many famous rodmakers, authors and personalities like Jeff Hatton, Mike Clark & Kathy Jensen, AK Best, Marcello Calviello, Mike Shay, Mike Sinclair etc. who frequent this forum .

Do post your experience with classic tackle and pics of UK trout when you find the time.

I've said too much, Cheers!

CY

[flybum]

Hi CY,

Wow! I suppose I've come to the right forum.....so much to learn.Thanks for the info. and your help.

I go to quite few auctions in and around Edinburgh to look for vintage flyfishing tackles and come across many cane rods that are made in the UK namely Hardy,Sharpe,Foster,,Allcocks,and Sealy and a french make Pezon Michel.Besides the Hardy's are the rest any good or are they considered classics and of collectable value only?

Can you give me estimate cost of a new 7ft.cane rod of average price range and make?

Will post some angling pictures when the season begins in March.

Thanks again.GP

[Chee Yung]

Hi GP,

This is only one of the few canerod enthusiast's forum. My favourites are:
1) p205.ezboard.com/bclarksclassicflyrodforum
2) www.rodbuildingforum.com/
3) mysite.verizon.net/vze2h7gi/fishnbanjossliceoflifeincyberspacecopy/index.html
4) westslopefly.com/rods/index.cfm for mouth watering gear
and all the cane builder's references in our blog : www.flyfishingclubsingapore.blogspot.com/

The UK makers/models mentioned are quite popular especially the Hardys and Petzons ( parabolics). In the collector's market, Hardy Palakonas 'Marvels', Tom Moran and Petzons linked to Charles Ritz are very popular and yes, they are fished and not merely collector's items ( BTW I fish my 1915 Leonard quite often and its perfect). I hear that Edward Barder of UK www.barder-rod.co.uk/ is up and coming. Not cheap though but really nice work

Hmm... a contemporary 7ft cane rod can start from USD$495 for single tip 2 pc, see home.earthlink.net/~shaybamboo/id5.html or USD$850 for 2 pc 2 tips see www.brooksbamboo.com/rods.html to USD$1050 master maker rod www.belvoirdale.com/jennings.html to USD$1800 innovative custom maker rods www.ctrods.com/ to USD$2000 even more extreme experimentation rods www.beaverheadrods.com to almost USD$3K crazy wait-till-you drop-dead master maker rod brandin-splitcane.com/, .. thats only a drop in the ocean . European makers are very expensive but IMHO are very fast, punctual, immaculate and honest master makers: www.fries-rods.dk. US makers are sometimes overloaded with orders and may have unexpected delays.. but they are supposed to be the best

If you are just using for fishing and want a master maker who can craft a rod quickly, you can contact: www.thramerrods.com. AJ is the top maker at reasonable prices. If you have USD$3K to spend, want an instant collector's item and have infinite patience for 5 years to wait... contact /google Marc Aroner, Bob Summers, Mike Clark, Mario Wojnicki, Walt Carpenter, Bob Taylor, Per Brandin & Ron Kusse. Slightly shorter waits ( 2-3 years max) and slightly cheaper collectables are James Reams, Glenn Brackett/Sweetgrass, T&T, Eden Cane, Scott ( Bernard Ramanuskas), Don Shroeder, Carlson Rods ( Dana Gray), Gary Lacey etc.

I tend to go for not so mainstream makers who seem friendly to me and share my tastes. I'm a great fan of totally different makers like Jeff Hatton and will receive two unique rods from him soon.

Dont get me wrong, there are many very good rodbuilders out there who will craft a beautiful heirloom quality 7ft 2pc for less than USD$1500 and if you get lucky they are affordable now and may be famous later but its a gamble.

Do tell us your budget in USD$, what action you are looking for, how many pieces, line wt, hollow-built or not, flamed or blonde, frills or minimalistic design, wait time, target fish species etc. and we can suggest some makers to suit you needs .

Cheers
CY

[flybum]

Hi CY,
Thanks for the links....phew.Don't know what I've got myself into now....

I do a lot of fishing for loch and river brown trout and grayling.Using nmyphs in the early part ot the season and mostly drys from May onwards.The browns ranges from 3/4 up to 5lbs and grayling average around 1.5lb.I am averse to heavy rods so lenght up to 7 1/2ft should be maxed.Is that such a thing as a light cane rod? Assuming hollow built rods will be lighter but heavier on the pocket.More functionality than asthetics.

Have you ever come across a Payne?There was an article in Trout & Salmon that featured Barder....looks very good but expensive.And yes he is one of the best in the UK.

Itchy..itchy can't wait for the season to start and put the Constable to the test.


Thanks again CY.

Cheers and tight lines...GP

Thanks again